Ep 2: Open Conversation - The Complexities of Gathering

In this episode, we’re chatting about creativity, what it means to be an artist, and all the weird, complicated stuff that comes with social gatherings. We talk about how hosting can be stressful, how you can still feel lonely even when you’re surrounded by people, and why being real in your art matters. We also get into the expectations we put on our relationships and how having a little structure in social stuff can actually help people connect. Mostly, it’s us reflecting on our own journeys and learning to be okay with the messy, imperfect parts of both art and life 

Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:55)
Hello, Caitlin.

Speaker 2 (00:58)
This is

our second episode and I think we may have determined a title for our video podcast which is... ⁓

Speaker 1 (01:03)
I so too.

And now I'm like, what is it? It's a curious path.

Boy, how did it take so long? But it was a process to come up with.

Speaker 2 (01:19)
Process

yeah, yeah, so counselors because we're counselors crafting artistic crafting also like the Needling woodworking kind of vibe yes, yes, yes, yes, and curious is like the left path like the path of the witches

Speaker 1 (01:30)
Witchcraft if you want to. ⁓

I'm

Speaker 2 (01:40)
wandering

yeah yeah thinking personal philosophy and path that it's like unfolding we don't know where the path is taking us there are no answers we don't know

Speaker 1 (01:50)
Did

we give it away? Like this intro? So thanks for being here. Another day, another ⁓ chat.

Speaker 2 (01:59)
Yeah, another day, another chat. ⁓ I'm feeling good. I'm feeling a little tired, I had so much fun working on the logo and like an intro video. It feels like it gave me a creative project over the weekend, which was so nice.

Speaker 1 (02:02)
How you feeling right now?

Yes.

I agree,

even downloading my movie maker app and getting into that, was like, ⁓ yeah, you like doing this stuff. ⁓ And then when you sent me the little intro song, I was like, ⁓ but then you know

Speaker 2 (02:27)
Me too! That's exactly how I felt!

I'm so happy.

Speaker 1 (02:38)
But you know what,

it did get me in my head about like, am I an artist? Because I can't compose music. I don't, and it got me into that kind of, yeah, a constant battle that I face.

Speaker 2 (02:50)
I thought

that when ⁓ we were talking about you recording the intro, I'm like, am I an artist if I can't record an intro? Yeah, so the skills.

Speaker 1 (02:59)
Fascinating. And

everything is an art too, which I guess is a good way to remote. We dress. ⁓

Speaker 2 (03:07)
We dress ourselves. Dressing ourselves as an art.

Being a friend is an art. It is. Doing therapy is an art.

Speaker 1 (03:14)
The art

of gathering, the art of communication. So that's honestly comforting to hear that that made you feel that way.

Speaker 2 (03:22)
Yeah, I was like, my god, if I was doing this on my own and I was recording my own intro, it would just be like...

Speaker 1 (03:29)
It was a journey though, like even recording it, took me back to my voice acting days where like you're replaying and I'm sure you have this with your music too where you're replaying and you're like, ah, it could be better. Ah, it could be better. Oh, let's accentuate right here. And at a point it's just like, it's going to be what it is. It's not, nothing's perfect. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:50)
And I wouldn't be surprised if we like maybe not change the name but maybe like tweak different stuff but I just think it's fun to be playful and I'm thinking about my life and how I'm moving in like five weeks and I was like how nice would it be if we just had this part of our lives together as like collaborators just like nailed down we have the intro we have a intro yes an intro yeah yeah we have some and intro I was like quite a

Speaker 1 (04:13)
Ann. What? Yeah.

I know. It is a very... it's all the weather changes I'm gonna blame. my god. Last night it was the windiest ever. We're like North Chicago based. I live in Chicago, Caitlin does not, but...

Speaker 2 (04:25)
There's so many weather changes.

live in North

Chicago suburbs, also known as close to our.

Speaker 1 (04:36)
And it,

yesterday was windy, the other day was snowy, the other day was, it was like all four seasons in one week. yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:43)
Yeah, and a lot of people with like fibro or chronic fatigue or long COVID had like symptoms pop up and inflammation and... yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's been weird. And then there's like, you know, just a couple things happening politically. But it's... So yeah, there's a lot of change.

Speaker 1 (04:50)
People here too.

Yeah, you know all that. It's

hard to do spring cleaning when it doesn't feel like spring. Yeah. And so keep kind of putting it off because I'm like, the vibe's not there yet. is. is. But it is funny. I'm like, dishes, you're going to sit there a little longer until I feel like I absolutely have to do you. That's the perks of being alone or living alone, not being alone.

Speaker 2 (05:09)
And that's all.

No, yeah, I live alone right now too and I'm like, ooh. Yeah. Sometimes it's nice, sometimes it's sad.

Speaker 1 (05:31)
Yes, agreed. Agreed. We have pets. You've got a dog. I've got a cat. And I got a cat because I was feeling lonely last year and I knew I needed something. Has it solved all of it? No.

Speaker 2 (05:45)
The cat

is not a human.

Speaker 1 (05:47)
⁓ But you know

what, I am in this phase now ⁓ where I'm about to graduate and so I'm getting to have more time to like do things I want to do, connect with friends and I hosted a game night on Friday night ⁓ with some people. Yeah I mean I have some in my house.

Speaker 2 (06:02)
I I could have a piece of Can you bring some

on Wednesday?

Speaker 1 (06:11)
I was

thinking about it today, but the cake said I bought it from jewel, but on the cake it said my god I have friends It was so cute, but

felt very sad afterwards. I felt really overwhelmed, like I haven't done this in a while. Like, I didn't have a bad time by any means, but I didn't feel present because there were new people coming in, it was different group dynamics. I was like, okay, who am I with this person? Who am I with this person? How do I like mask, mask, Like, it was just so, it was hard for me to feel like I wasn't in charge of everyone's wellbeing.

Speaker 2 (06:51)
And then if you're trying to be in charge of everyone's and they're different enough, then you can't, you're gonna fail.

Speaker 1 (06:56)
Everyone was fine. Everyone

was fine. I was the one who was... Like I started crying before everyone got there. I was like, oh my god. So I'm in that phase of trying to figure out, what's the right group of people? Keep it consistent. Maybe co-facilitate or co-host with someone so it's not all the pressure on me.

Speaker 2 (07:16)
I was thinking

maybe you were doing so much prep work. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:21)
And it was a lot of just like head prep work. Because it was at a cafe. Like I didn't have to do anything. even still, I did bring my...

Speaker 2 (07:26)
you brought a cake and you gathered

people and you coordinated it right?

Speaker 1 (07:32)
And managing

people's messages and things, yeah. That's true. But that's been like big top of mind this weekend. It's like new phases of life and navigating them.

Speaker 2 (07:42)
I had

a similar thought-ish. was thinking about someone said, do like a goodbye party for everyone in your life. And I was like, I don't think everyone would get along. I think I have to divide people up into categories. like, my like friends who live in the building with me, my coworkers, and then my like people in Chicago who I've been friends with for longer. And it was a weird, it reminds me of what you're saying where like some people show up and you're like, oh, there's these people and then these people.

Speaker 1 (08:10)
And like, I've read a book called The Art of Gathering. ⁓ can lend you it. And in it, it says it's okay to be selective with who you invite to gatherings. And I agree with that. But when I don't have a core group, everyone is from different walks of my life. they get along fine, but it is a matter of like, figuring out what is the right vibe, doing my research a little more of like trial and error.

Speaker 2 (08:13)
I wanted to read that.

And also

vibe versus activity too. Like some people doing one activity might get along great. But then it's like how much does it matter if people get along too? ⁓

Speaker 1 (08:48)
Right? All of that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:54)
It kind of reminds me of like, I had this friend who got married a couple years ago and I think they said something like, I felt so alone on my wedding day. And I don't know, I'm getting that vibe from you.

Speaker 1 (09:06)
That's, you

know what, in the past week I have gone to a wedding, I have hosted a gathering, and I have hung out with a friend one on one. Which is like bonkers to me. That would happen maybe in like eight months. But now it's happened in a week and so I'm just kind of, I love people so much but I'm so drained and I'm thinking about if I had my own wedding, I feel like I would feel alone too. I really do. And so now I'm just looking at marriage differently, I'm just looking at so many things in a different way.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:47)
And then there's the thought of, what is it called? you, like feeling alone versus being alone and the difference and like what can elicit the feeling of being alone even when you're not alone and I'm wondering for you, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (10:02)
Bye.

I'm

curious if I have these expectations, but I haven't labeled exactly what they are for me. And so I always end up a little bit disappointed because the expectations weren't met, that's also because they weren't labeled. Like I didn't even identify what they were. And so when I'm looking for friendships, I am searching for this thing that I think like, want to connect with people, but like, what does that actually mean, Olivia? What do you mean you want to connect with people? And so from working here, I'm realizing like, maybe I need to be more specific.

with what I actually want and not just this broad idea. I mean it's okay I'm learning but like it would be nice to kind of get a little

Speaker 2 (10:43)
And

also like maybe what relationship can provide what? Because I'm I feel like when I was struggling with that more it was that I was defining like something as what is like a best friend or a good friend and then how can someone meet those criteria and now it's more of like oh I will likely have this type of experience with this person and this type of experience with this person and it'll all be different. Yeah. But that is different than what you're talking about with like the party where it's like all of a sudden everyone's together.

Speaker 1 (10:47)
Yes.

Speaker 2 (11:13)
Because it is nice, like we have it here at Effective Artistry, like everyone who works here knows each other in their own way, and so then you're not having to do that labor of like, oh, so you're from my high school days, I this person. Because I think that's part of it too, is like watching people get to know each other and being the connecting thread, and that can be exhausting.

Speaker 1 (11:33)
Right, it was very sweet though, in between a game. ⁓ My best friend Joey from high school, ⁓ we were attached to the hip and we were talking about how people were jealous with us. And we're not like, people are jealous of, they were actually very jealous. he, before we started another game, he was like, hang on everyone, I wanna know.

everyone knows Olivia. And so we had everyone just go around the circle and it was like, it wasn't my birthday. It wasn't, but it was so cool to like, you can have a gathering or a celebration for anything. And that felt really special to kind of just pause for a second and acknowledge like, okay, we don't all know each other. I think more gatherings could benefit from having structure.

Speaker 2 (12:16)
Like structure

as in, how would structure apply to that kind of-

Speaker 1 (12:20)
That

was like when we stopped and we took a moment to like introduce ourselves. There's some structure there. ⁓ I've hosted gatherings where I do the same kind of thing where we're gonna introduce ourselves and then we're gonna say something that we like about ourselves, whatever. Or it's having an activity or you know a game or a movie that we're gonna watch and then we're gonna do this. I mean there's a reason we all like like structure and routine.

Speaker 2 (12:44)
So

were you thinking that that gathering could have benefited from having more structure?

Speaker 1 (12:48)
Yes, because people were coming in left and right and I didn't know who was going to be there and the table was like, well, I knew who was going to be there, I didn't know what time everyone was getting there. And I'm like someone who gets here on time. so, no, never ever. ⁓ And so it there's a lot of thoughts.

Speaker 2 (13:01)
think he's like almost never very rare.

Well

that could be some of it too then is maybe like as you were trying to track like your expectations and dealing with the social elements of it if you don't know who's showing up in one or when people are showing up. So maybe then it's like this activity is going to start at this time, this one's going to start at this time.

Speaker 1 (13:25)
It

would have been. But that was my weekend and kind of just where I've been at.

Speaker 2 (13:35)
Yeah, I'm thinking about what's been coming up in sessions since our last...

and then I'm just thinking I really liked our first recording.

Speaker 1 (13:48)
Yeah, what's been coming up? Anything notable? Not notable, but just...

Speaker 2 (13:53)
There's so

many notable things, there's just nothing coming up in this moment because I think I'm feeling what you were feeling and then thinking about the concept of loneliness.

Speaker 1 (14:06)
You're feeling

what I was feeling.

Speaker 2 (14:07)
over the weekend

maybe? don't know. Or at least my experiences of similar things. once had a party and I got like so excited. I was like, I'm going to combine all different people in my life. And I was like betting that they would all get along. it was like the opposite. No. Yeah. Yeah. I am trying to figure out how much to share about this, like

Speaker 1 (14:24)
No.

⁓ my god!

Speaker 2 (14:37)
Essentially it was a group of people where without ⁓ alcohol, I guess what I'll say, without alcohol, I think everyone would have gotten along. But there was one person who drank... ⁓

I wouldn't say they got drunk, but they drank a lot. And then they started kind of like spouting off like different things that are things that like some people would have considered funny. Like they weren't like, they weren't like explicitly like offensive things. Like if everyone heard them, would, some people might laugh and some people might be like, my gosh. And, but one of the people at the party was in the latter category, like that is not okay to say those things. And so then it turned into a fight.

you

Speaker 1 (15:22)
What kind of fight? A verbal fight?

Speaker 2 (15:25)
Yeah verbal and then one of the people just being like I'm gonna go like leaving and it so and You did and I said to myself I'm never gonna do this again. Yeah, I'm never gonna bring people together in different parts of my life again Yeah, I mean like little degrees like partners meeting people sure or like

Speaker 1 (15:32)
So how did that impact you? What was going on?

And have you not?

Speaker 2 (15:51)
one friend and another friend. But yeah, but I had a similar thought like of, my gosh, if these people all meet each other, maybe they'll all feel less alone too, because they'll get along. And I think like sober, they all would have gotten along.

Speaker 1 (16:06)
It's

interesting too, like the goal you had it sounds like was like I want other people to feel less alone Was that?

Speaker 2 (16:15)
It was more of, I would love to bring together all these different people that I love and maybe at some point they'll love each other and we could all hang out. like building like community in Chicago.

because I think it would be beautiful, for example, to have enough of a group of friends where it's like we do a Tuesday game night and usually at least three people show up, but 20 people get invited or something. So I was trying to do that kind of thing where it's like, if they all know each other and like each other enough, then maybe we can do like, and it just fell apart. It was so dramatic. ⁓

Speaker 1 (16:52)
Yeah,

I mean I did the same thing where I'm like I'm gonna invite all these people they're all great whatever and then I was like oh my god 13 people are coming and that was like and then some people said they weren't able to come but then other people were bringing new people and it was just

Speaker 2 (17:06)
Yeah, and then having, I think, guidelines around like, whatever. mean, there's so much to manage, honestly. So I think sometimes like choosing an activity or like a theme can help.

Speaker 1 (17:15)
There is. Yeah.

I was

asking my friend who hosts a lot of gatherings. was like, hey Have you ever just felt sad after hosting a gathering and he was like, my gosh. Yes, absolutely He's like but some things that I've helped alleviate that are doing events that like are like potlucks where everyone like kind of brings a kind of thing So everyone's involved and it takes the pressure off like less pressure on you. He also said like co-facilitating And then he is a dungeon master and so that means he's like guiding the players through

the game that they're playing. But he said sometimes he is so lonely because all the players are having fun but he's the one like leading. Which we can relate to, our boss can relate to. And he was like, but sometimes to make myself feel better I will have like check-ins afterwards with them about like where we want to move forward with the game so I feel more involved with them.

And that was just, it was so helpful for us to just be validated that that is a common experience. Because I was like, am I an idiot for like being sad about a thing that I hosted that I wanted and look.

Speaker 2 (18:23)
And that maybe

another aspect of it is the people who came maybe would have said this was successful. Yeah. Yeah. And then I feel like the loneliness gets even worse because it's like, well, if they all had fun and I feel lonely and like I didn't enjoy it as much than like, what is there something?

Speaker 1 (18:28)
yeah, they loved it.

Yeah,

just getting that like, know what's common, hear some tips and tricks. He also talked about how he like, he will like invite people to a gathering and then depending on how they are at that like initial gathering, it's his research to be like, okay, maybe I don't want you for something at home. I'm gonna do something in public first and then like baby step my way. So I'm gonna burp. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:04)
Yeah, it's so sad how hard this stuff is because it really is hard and I think it's something that could be so useful to occur more often.

Speaker 1 (19:13)
what, just like gathering.

Speaker 2 (19:15)
Yeah, gathering in like that's that's one of the things I'm sad about with moving because I feel like having like group therapy in person would be so amazing. like, yeah, gathering in person in a way that there's like enough structure and like social norms around it that it's sort of like automatic. And I feel like the closest to that is like we're going to have dinner at this restaurant at this time once a week or we're going to have a potluck at this home. Or like something where it's like or like we're going to play D &D for

Right.

Speaker 1 (19:46)
I think a

purpose of going in, sometimes I'm like, okay, we're just eating. Sometimes eating isn't even enough for me. I need something, a game, some form of entertainment.

Speaker 2 (19:59)
I'm also thinking about like sharing art or something.

Speaker 1 (20:02)
painting

sip nights, decorating shoes, whatever.

Speaker 2 (20:06)
Yeah, or like

if it's people who are creative maybe they come in and they're like this is the project I'm working on or something.

Speaker 1 (20:12)
I did a gathering last summer, which you said was too cute of a name for our podcast name, but I called it Hearts and Crafts. Yeah, that's lovely. And it was great. It was like, I'm feeling lonely. I'm going to gather all my friends at the beach, and we're all going to bring our own art supplies. And we just did art. And I did our little intros. Still felt sad afterwards, because I think I worked so hard, and then it was over. And I...

Speaker 2 (20:36)
So it was

like you enjoyed it but sad in a different way than this one?

Speaker 1 (20:41)
Yes, but also

the same way. I don't know what's going on. I was so excited about it and I think the preparation was so much more fun than the actual thing. And also I was in charge and so I didn't feel like I could be... I don't

Speaker 2 (20:55)
That would be interesting, like a recurring crafting night where... Yeah, I think there's something about having it be a one-off thing that sounds... interesting.

Speaker 1 (20:58)
Yeah, if it was regular, I think that would be...

I think that's the thing. Exhaust. Yeah.

Yeah. I agree.

Speaker 2 (21:09)
And co-hosting like having it not just be your own thing.

Speaker 1 (21:13)
It's okay, I'm in the process of figuring it out.

Speaker 2 (21:17)
Yeah, I'm thinking about a group of people ⁓ like neighbors and We've done like Four I guess like casual parties over the course of like a year and a half and each party feels easy Yeah, each one is like, okay We we know like so there might be something like that But also I like to think of those things is like what are things that I want to do more often in my life and just like sitting down and crafting is something that I would love to do more

Speaker 1 (21:31)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:47)
but I just don't do. So like, I think that can also be nice too to have it have a purpose that you feel like it's filling your soul.

Speaker 1 (21:55)
It makes me think, and this is probably not the same for everybody, but family gatherings for me. I think now that I'm older, I am so much more relaxed. Like I'm not trying to prove anything to my family members and I can just sit. I can not talk the entire gathering and be okay with it. Where I know as like a kid and a teen, I was kind of like, look at me, like I'm interesting, whatever. And now I don't care. Y'all have known me since I was a baby, you know? And that's kind of a nice relief of like that.

Speaker 2 (22:23)
feel

like you enjoy them more now.

Speaker 1 (22:25)
Yeah, I do.

do. And that's because we've had more and more and more and more.

Speaker 2 (22:30)
And I also hear like an unconditional aspect of it like these people have been in my life and will continue to be in my life versus I don't know something I don't know if there was something like feeling like you had to perform a level of value for people to like if I do another one of these Friendship nights will people come back will they enjoy it enough to come back?

Speaker 1 (22:52)
I it is, yeah it is, I feel like something we've talked about of like wanting to show people our value, you know? And yeah, all the time. And just kind of letting go of that and just accepting like, no you are valuable. There's no, it's already there. It's already there.

Speaker 2 (22:59)
I do it all the time.

Speaker 1 (23:14)
like doing school projects and things. That was always the goal of like, what's the most interesting thing I can do? Like it might not even fit the criteria, but I want to be interesting.

Speaker 2 (23:23)
Yeah,

and there's the like, really don't like this phrase. I want to try to find a new one. But the gifted kids stuff where it was like, if you get told enough times, like this only not only was a great project, but it's the best I've seen in the 15 years I've been a teacher. I'm like, and then it's just like, so then, yeah, so then for me, I feel like certain subjects, actually, it was all of them, except for history became like, not only how can I do the best,

Also, how can I be like, I'm gonna frame this on my, and I'm just like, and I didn't, it was just so programmed in me that I didn't really consciously think of it as a thing that I didn't have to center until like sort of the whole break in perfectionism, which happened after I graduated. ⁓

Speaker 1 (24:14)
and you didn't have to center.

Speaker 2 (24:17)
Like I honestly do not think I thought of it as an option in high school to just like do something well enough to get a decent grade. Absolutely not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and, and I'm guessing someone said that to me, but maybe it just felt so foreign to me. but yeah, that's, that's scary. And it's so other based. Like I remember, ⁓ here, I did a final,

Speaker 1 (24:25)
Bye.

Speaker 2 (24:46)
He was like a poetry project in AP English or something. And it was a book of poems called A Muddy Disarray. And I did like a, like a whatever. And I loved them so much. And I was like, this is going to be one of those things where the teacher's like, this is the best ever. And I remember the teacher being like, that was nice. Good job. Like, like, like it was totally. So then I was like,

my gosh, yeah, and I think I used that as fodder for like, I shouldn't be a poet and I shouldn't be a writer.

Speaker 1 (25:16)
Because

she said it was good job but not the best you see.

Speaker 2 (25:18)
Yeah, because at the same time I was winning like a bunch of music awards and stuff and so it's like well if I'm really really good at music and I like love writing but I'm not like exceptional at it then I shouldn't write and then like I keep going back to when I ask myself like what is what are like the top three things you want to do with your life and usually it's like write a book write an album of my own song

Speaker 1 (25:45)
Wow.

Speaker 2 (25:48)
And

that literally like the criteria for me to kind of use this as fodder was like someone being like, yeah, that was good. Like that was great. They maybe even said great. Yeah. And this teacher still is like in my life more or less. Like every time I run into her, she's like so pleased to see me. like, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:09)
and she's

Speaker 2 (26:12)
And usually when I start just like free writing, like I give myself a prompt, write something that will turn into a book, it's always like a book of poems.

Speaker 1 (26:20)
Hmm.

Isn't it? Something there. It makes me tangentially think of like, ⁓

creative writing project I had in my creative writing class senior year and I just it was the end of the year and it was so busy with all these things and I didn't have time to write anything but I had been writing blog posts for like almost every day every day of high school which is creative writing and I was like it's still me it's not present me but I still wrote them and I think a lot of people get stuck in their heads of like well that was like past me I can I still do that which is ⁓

But I just took a bunch of those blog posts and made them into like a creative presentation took the pictures I had on my blog and made a whole book of it and made it like kind of a more kind of thing. ⁓ that's so I got a hundred percent. But it was it was my way of like Work smarter not harder. Actually, I've been working very hard on them. It's just not in that. Yeah

Speaker 2 (27:22)
No, that makes sense. I, ⁓ when I, so it's interesting. I feel like my rule, my new rule of like, just do it and don't judge how good it is. Just put it out there. It's obviously applying to this podcast. ⁓ it's applying more and more to being a therapist, which is helpful. It's starting to apply to music. It definitely applied to me doing pottery, but writing to me feels like maybe like the last like artistic threshold to cross of like, you don't put writing out there unless you really

It's very very good. And so that's one of the things I want to do with like a Substack that's either mine or like effective artistries like I would love to write a blog post literally with typos in it Yeah, and just put it out there and typos that like where I think there are no typos But there's still like that type of where it's just like not this like filtered Yeah, or like this like hunting for like the imperfection around the corner and then you're just like so stressed

Speaker 1 (28:17)
hunting

for the imperfections.

Speaker 2 (28:19)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah it reminds me of like a type of hyper vigilance where Like did I pronounce one word incorrectly? Did I misspell one word? Like do I understand the form of a poem enough to even call this a poem? what is the you know?

Speaker 1 (28:35)
But we can overthink ourselves into a space.

Speaker 2 (28:37)
Yeah,

but it's helpful to talk to you about this. feel like you're being my therapist, which is so helpful. But it seems like that's kind of the last threshold for me to cross of artistic imperfection. And maybe it'll come up if I actually record an album, but I'm really trying not to.

Speaker 1 (28:55)
Okay,

we could get into that, but we don't have much time because I know you have a session soon. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. there's a lot there, Caitlin. Yeah. What would be a step for you to, I mean, you said the substack thing for writing, what else?

Speaker 2 (29:00)
Five more minutes.

I was

thinking about writing a blog post that is about like what I learned from pottery. ⁓ And there is something about blog that feels like a genre, I don't know if it counts as a genre, but yeah, but a type of writing where like I don't think blog is ever meant for perfection because it's not an article.

Speaker 1 (29:32)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:33)
Yeah,

so, and I would love that. And I love the idea of all of us inspiring each other. Like maybe Brandon's like writing to be on there and your writing and my writing. I know there are other staff members who enjoy writing or like literally posting like a picture of like we have ⁓ Molly is an art therapist. She works here and she does ceramics. So maybe Molly like posts a picture of a piece of ceramics with like a like provocative name and that's it.

You know, just like something like... something like that. I just gotta... Yeah, think a blog would be good.

Speaker 1 (30:09)
I think so too. just got a flash. got a flash to when I wrote a blog post when I was like 23 and it was like basically the idea of like I feel like such a misfit and I called it like an alligator with a mohawk. That was what it was called.

Speaker 2 (30:24)
That reminds me of dochi's alligator bites album or so it's ⁓ my god. It's so good. It's brilliant. Okay

Speaker 1 (30:32)
Anyway,

⁓ alligator with a mohawk instead of like square fitting into a round peg whatever that whole phrase ⁓ And I just am sitting here now realizing like ⁓ you have felt so Out of place for so long And I have never identified myself as neurodiverse until I came here And now which is like bonkers to me because Caitlin's like no you scream it Olivia ⁓

Speaker 2 (30:57)
Yeah, I did

too and I was like, no, yeah, it's just depression.

Speaker 1 (31:03)
I'm just anxious.

just cry at everything. But yeah, it's just kind of putting it all together and looking at my past more and more every day. Like, wow, you are so unique. And we all are. And that is so special. ⁓ Anyways.

Speaker 2 (31:19)
you

Yeah, there was this acceptance speech that lady did you listen to that YouTube video I posted in our thread? No. So Lady Gaga had an acceptance speech for like innovator and I think it was like, I don't think it was a Grammy. It was like, it was some music, I heart radio or something. But anyway, in the speech, she said something about like how ⁓ being authentic and like as authentically you as you possibly can is like the type

of art that like makes waves or whatever and she wasn't implying that like she was I I read from it as like everyone is very unique and the more unique you allow yourself to be like the more authentically you allow yourself to communicate in your art the more authenticity you will inspire in other people too so yeah so it's not like one person is more unique or less unique than the other but I do think there is like like in Dochi's album there's like a felt sense

of like she's being like so real and like raw and unfiltered and... ⁓

Speaker 1 (32:34)
I mean, those are the kind of artists I gravitate towards, definitely, of like, I can see the little bit of mess in here. You know, it's not... I don't know. There's a lot. I don't know. I don't know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (32:46)
Yeah, but I guess I feel like to wrap this back to like the blog post I feel like there's something about Like that I could internally or you could internally like measure like how authentic does this feel to me instead of how good is it? Like how like well written is it or how beautiful is it or how not beautiful is it or how unique is it? But just how authentic does this?

Speaker 1 (33:09)
feel.

You know, my god, so much to say. Okay, I was a selective mute for like the first seven, eight years of my life and that kind of is still transferred into my life and I would like write things down before saying them all the time. Writing blog posts is a way to help me like process my feelings when I couldn't talk out loud and I just think about, I'm just thinking about that right now of like how Brandon, our boss, our supervisor is training us to just say what's

on our mind where I always felt like I had to be prepared. You're nodding your head like you agree, like you really.

Speaker 2 (33:44)
Yeah, yeah, I always felt like I wrote way better than I spoke. Yes, like well I can just not speak.

Speaker 1 (33:50)
Yes!

And my teachers would all be like, wow, Olivia, I love what you're writing. I wish you would say more in class. And I had gotten that note from teachers through college. It's still hard for me. And I'm a pretty expressive person outwardly. But we'll explore that another time. ⁓

Speaker 2 (34:09)
This was a lovely

second episode. yeah, this is, ⁓ I guess an outro would be like, this is counselors craft a curious path of video podcast. And we are therapists at effective artistry and neurodiversity affirming practice in Illinois. And we do individual and we're doing groups together, group therapy. yeah, if you guys, we were talking about this, like wanting to hear topics people might be interested in or questions they have for us. I think it would be interesting to have like

crumbs.

Speaker 1 (34:40)
Yes, I would love this. be fun. ⁓ Especially as creative creatives and therapists. There's a lot we can explore and we look forward to hearing your ideas as well. Thanks for tuning was nice to be with you Olivia. You too, Caitlin.